Catastrophic Water pump Failure Lots of Coolant in Oil, $7,000 repair

[colvinji]

I own a NA 2010 Ford Flex with about 151k on the clock. Posted some info in another post but decided this needs it own thread. My Flex sudden stopped last week, had it towed home to see what issue could be. After researching and most helpful info on htis site determined was water pump. Had Flex towed to local dealer to have diagnosed. Ford dealer started work on Monday and determined yes was water pump. Goto today Wednesday and got some picks from dealer showing was catastrophic failure. Went to Ford this afternoon and took some pix. Water pump was nearly completely destroyed. One thing I find very interesting was the fact that the dealer does not report this kind of issue to Ford since it is out of warranty.

I also filed a complaint with NHTSA this is my complaint;
Complaint Number: 10811218
While waiting at a light in my 2010 Ford Flex the engine was idling rough, after the signal turned green the power seemed low and sluggish as I accelerated. When I was at about 45 mph the engine power returned and seemed more normal, suddenly without notice the engine turned off and all dash lights illuminated. I was able to pull into a drive way but was very hard as there was no power steering. I was able to coast to a stop safely. Once stopped there was a very strong smell of coolant. I opened the hood and found a large amount of coolant on right side of engine. My car was towed to my home to figure out what the issue could be. On further inspection it is suspected that the water pump failed which is internal to the timing chain cover and therefore dumped a large amount of coolant into the crankcase which then contaminated the engine oil and over filled the oil pan. I was fortunate that this occurred on a city street and not on the freeway as this could have caused a major accident. On further research I have found this has occurred many times. The engine in question is the Cyclone engine and is Fords latest V6 family of gasoline engines introduced in 2006, and is known as the Duratec 35 which displaces 3.5 L, the Duratec 37 which displaces 3.7L and the EcoBoost 35 which is a Twin Turbo charged variant of the Duratec 35, these engines are installed in the following vehicles, 2007–Present Ford EDGE, 2010–2012 Ford Fusion Sport, 2011–Present Ford Mustang, 2009–Present Ford Flex, 2010–Present Ford Taurus SHO, 2013–Present Police Interceptor Sedan, 2011–Present Ford Explorer, 2013–Present Ford Police Interceptor Utility, 2011–Present Ford F-150, 2015–Present Ford Expedition/Expedition EL, 2014–Present Ford Transit, 2015–Present Lincoln Navigator/Navigator L, 2010–Present Lincoln MKS, 2010–Present Lincoln MKT, 2007–Present Lincoln MKX, 2007–Present Mazda CX-9(MZI).

[loweredd]

An NHTSA report for a failed waterpump on 151000 miles? What the heck? When did cars all claim to be trouble free for 1,000,000 miles? I don't understand.

[66 Galaxie]

Lol, You mean they don't last forever?

[turbodave]

Actually, a water pump should last way more than 150,000!

I'm wondering why this was allowed to go that far without hearing warning noises, etc. that kind of damage should have created some horrible noises!!!!!

[Konaboost]

Trying to get Ford to repair it for free?

[Steveturbo]

151k, that is 1k more miles then Ford engineers them for, you did good.

[MomRocket]

its a plastic impeller - 151k is more than acceptable...
its not a Chevy after all...

most toyotas are leaking a little at the 90k (timing belt interval) and those are metal.

[GN1220]

Seems to me he is complaining about the fact that nothing more than a worn out water pump destroyed the whole engine. Honestly, what kind of design allows a worn water pump to dump gallons of water directly into the crankcase? I'd be pretty pissed off too.

[turbodave]

Ya, even as pro Ford as I am even I have to admit that such a design is incredibly moronic!!!!!!

[66 Galaxie]

Agree it is poor placement for a maintenance item.

[abs]

Seems to me he is complaining about the fact that nothing more than a worn out water pump destroyed the whole engine. Honestly, what kind of design allows a worn water pump to dump gallons of water directly into the crankcase? I'd be pretty pissed off too.

BINGO! I have another thread going on this same topic as my engine had to be replaced with just over 100k miles on it due to the failed water pump. There is no excuse for the moronic design. Water pumps fail. They always fail, it is a fact of life. For FORD engineers to design this engine with a built in engine destroying and life limiting failure point is complete idiocy.

I continue to believe that we will see more and more of these failures as the miles rack up. And, each time it happens, there will be one more person who most likely will NEVER buy another Ford.

The faulty engineering design decisions on these engines will cost Ford more money in the long run due to lost customers than they can possibly fathom. Just consider that for every one engine failure, there will be scores of people who will hear the story of the ridiculous engine design and, simple as that, decide not buy a Ford . . .

[abs]

I own a NA 2010 Ford Flex with about 151k on the clock. Posted some info in another post but decided this needs it own thread. My Flex sudden stopped last week, had it towed home to see what issue could be. After researching and most helpful info on htis site determined was water pump. Had Flex towed to local dealer to have diagnosed. Ford dealer started work on Monday and determined yes was water pump. Goto today Wednesday and got some picks from dealer showing was catastrophic failure. Went to Ford this afternoon and took some pix. Water pump was nearly completely destroyed. One thing I find very interesting was the fact that the dealer does not report this kind of issue to Ford since it is out of warranty.

I also filed a complaint with NHTSA this is my complaint;
Complaint Number: 10811218
While waiting at a light in my 2010 Ford Flex the engine was idling rough, after the signal turned green the power seemed low and sluggish as I accelerated. When I was at about 45 mph the engine power returned and seemed more normal, suddenly without notice the engine turned off and all dash lights illuminated. I was able to pull into a drive way but was very hard as there was no power steering. I was able to coast to a stop safely. Once stopped there was a very strong smell of coolant. I opened the hood and found a large amount of coolant on right side of engine. My car was towed to my home to figure out what the issue could be. On further inspection it is suspected that the water pump failed which is internal to the timing chain cover and therefore dumped a large amount of coolant into the crankcase which then contaminated the engine oil and over filled the oil pan. I was fortunate that this occurred on a city street and not on the freeway as this could have caused a major accident. On further research I have found this has occurred many times. The engine in question is the Cyclone engine and is Fords latest V6 family of gasoline engines introduced in 2006, and is known as the Duratec 35 which displaces 3.5 L, the Duratec 37 which displaces 3.7L and the EcoBoost 35 which is a Twin Turbo charged variant of the Duratec 35, these engines are installed in the following vehicles, 2007–Present Ford EDGE, 2010–2012 Ford Fusion Sport, 2011–Present Ford Mustang, 2009–Present Ford Flex, 2010–Present Ford Taurus SHO, 2013–Present Police Interceptor Sedan, 2011–Present Ford Explorer, 2013–Present Ford Police Interceptor Utility, 2011–Present Ford F-150, 2015–Present Ford Expedition/Expedition EL, 2014–Present Ford Transit, 2015–Present Lincoln Navigator/Navigator L, 2010–Present Lincoln MKS, 2010–Present Lincoln MKT, 2007–Present Lincoln MKX, 2007–Present Mazda CX-9(MZI).

Thank you for sharing this story as well as the excellent pictures. It is clear that the pump bearing failed, allowing the pump shaft to move excessively (causing the visible wear of the impeller and casing shown in the photos), ultimately resulting in the water seal failure and coolant flowing into the crankcase. This is the same scenario which is beginning to repeat time and again . . . It is not a question of "IF" but rather a question of "WHEN".

[GN1220]

Now I'm worried. What's involved in changing the water pump?

[abs]

It is a fairly significant job. You have to drain the coolant, pull off the timing chain cover, remove the cam phasers and secondary chains, remove the timing chain tensioner and guides, remove the primary chain, remove the pump, clean the gasket materials, put everything back together (new pump, new guides, new tensioner, possibly new chains and/or cam phasers), drain the oil and be sure to remove any coolant that dropped into the oil pan during the pump swap, reinstall the timing chain cover, refill oil and coolant, then good to go.

On an engine with a timing chain, it should not be necessary to do all of this. However, with Ford's brilliant engineering design, it might be a good idea to simply plan to do this work every 90k miles or so. It is very similar in scope to the work required to replace a timing belt on other engines. Depending on what parts you replace it would probably cost between $1,200-$2,000.

[GN1220]

All of that for a $100 water pump? @132,000 I wonder how concerned I should really be? I can do the work but need to fix the PTU seal, replace the coolant fans and figure out the tranny sensor issue first.

[K_Redmond]

[QUOTE=Sixonemale;3500577]I would like to know from owners how long their water pump has lasted on the 3.5L engines. Most water pumps are not designed to last the life of an engine.


Hi. I am new to the Forum, but have been doing extensive searches I this subject. I think we are just seeing the tip of the iceberg.

This Duratec 35 engine/water pump system is on the 2007-2014 Ford Edge, 2007-2010 Lincoln MKX, 2007-2014 Lincoln MKZ, 2008-2014 Ford Taurus, 2008-2009 Ford Taurus X, 2008-2009 Mercury Sable, 2009-2004 Ford Flex, 2012-2012 Ford Fusion Sport, and 2011-2014 Ford Explorer.

You need to look at ALL of these forums I found this one by searching only on 'Duratech 35 problems' without the name of the model.

I am a young man, limited budget, first child on the way, from a Ford loving family. Bought my 2010 Ford Edge Limited for $15000, just 10 months ago. Certified pre-owned from the same well respected Ford Dealership where the original owner had purchased it and just recently traded it in.

Have just experienced catastrophic failure at 88000 miles due to water pump leaked and contaminated the engine oil with coolant.... $2300 quoted to replace water pump only, but told really need to replace engine too as bearings may be damaged ... total $7000.

Records show that vehicle was meticulously maintained by previous owner and I have done the same. This has been my dream car and it has been running like a charm. I expected to drive it for 3 years and trade-up.... or 5 years with budget of $1000/yr for repairs (I got 10 years out of my Focus wagon).

After only 10 months - 5 1/2 year old, 88,000 miles - a relatively new car, I am facing a $7000 repair bill, and it happened with no warning. Three days ago, a few miles from home, the check engine light came on. I immediately paid attention. Car sounded fine, no sign of trouble, figured I would take it in to dealer after work.... and at about that point, the temperature gauge started to climb. As soon as I saw it heading for the red zone, I pulled over, turned if off and called the tow truck to take it to the dealership where I bought it. I understood the danger to the engine if I drove it overheated. Even though it is winter here and outside temperature was below zero, this gauge was climbing pretty fast.

The rest of the story can be found by searching the internet. The internal water pump (what were they thinking?) leaked coolant into the engine oil. Almost simultaneously, the sensor recognized a problem in the engine due to contaminated oil/bearings coming apart/oil pressure dropping just as coolant had dropped to a level that caused temperature to rise. The coolant leak is entirely internal - no external visibility of any problem, so normal service checks and even a daily visual check will not find this problem until it is too late, and there is no sensor that will recognize that it is happening until it is too late..

I think Ford is praying that these incidents remain isolated and unpublished. You won't see a recall. I wonder how many of these have happened under warranty, so we don't hear about them?

But we ALL know that water pumps do not have the same life span as the engine. Now we also know that these vehicles have a design that has the potential to take out the motor with it when it fails... so what does it matter if it fails within warranty OR at anytime after 60,000 miles? Since when is this acceptable?

Is the only answer to BUY NEW and TRADE-IN before the warranty expires? And who in their right mind would pay thousands of dollars (as I did) for a premium used vehicle that could experience catastrophic failure at any moment? If it really is so rare, then clearly there was a defect in that particular vehicle, and Ford should eat the cost! But I think it is happening more frequently than we know.

HELP! Any ideas? I can't wait for a class action suit to recover my costs. Ford denies there is a problem. I am waiting to see if I can negotiate anything with the dealership to lower the costs of the repairs. May move it to our trusted family service garage and have them replace the motor & water pump...they have quoted about $4000 - but there wouldn't be the same warranty.

You know the water pump will leak/fail again at some point, so only recourse is to sell this time bomb to another victim. Whatever I do, I am pooched on this purchase. Will never buy another vehicle with this engine.... Love the EDGE... I am heartbroken.

[66 Galaxie]

238k miles (knock on wood) on the 3.5 in my '08 Taurus X. Mileage is mainly highway.

[macro cooper]

[ Have just experienced catastrophic failure at 88000 miles due to water pump leaked and contaminated the engine oil with coolant.... $2300 quoted to replace water pump only, but told really need to replace engine too as bearings may be damaged ... total $7000.

Redmond, from my understanding, you should be under Ford coverage for the repair and roadside assistance. If your engine requires replacement from a premature failure of the internal water pump, wouldn't the CPO warranty cover powertrain replacement? It says that CPO vehicles covers water pumps...

source: http://www.millsford.com/ford-certified.html

[Webmaster]

There's a post on AutoBlog today about how Nissan transmissions grenade after 100K miles, interesting read and really made me think of the EcoBoost water pump failures. Not to mention the endless PTU failures on various Ford models. The PTU failures show up a bit sooner but I think we're going to hear a lot more EcoBoost water pump engine failure issues in the next few years...

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/01/26/long ... er-xterra/

[loweredd]

They are machines, people. They don't go on forever. Now if EVERY ONE failed at the same mileage, you would have reason to gripe

[Webmaster]

They are machines, people. They don't go on forever. Now if EVERY ONE failed at the same mileage, you would have reason to gripe

Of course components will fail on any vehicle, but do think it's reasonable to drop $7,000 to replace your engine because the water pump failed? That's not normal in the automotive world.

[SWAGRWAGN]

Water pump failure at 67k, glad I had ESP new long block and turbos.... PTU failed at 21k too ! That's when I purchased ESP, if I hadn't it would have cost me $7,000 . There will be more and more as time goes by I'm sure !

[CincyFlyer]

They are machines, people. They don't go on forever. Now if EVERY ONE failed at the same mileage, you would have reason to gripe

Of course components will fail on any vehicle, but do think it's reasonable to drop $7,000 to replace your engine because the water pump failed? That's not normal in the automotive world.

Actually, I've seen engines replaced because a 33-cent circlip failed.

[Foghorn]

Yes, this is a poor design, expensive repair etc.
But all mechanical parts are designed to a MTTF ( Mean Time To Failure) rate. How many engines of this design has Ford sold? Millions? How many have failed with this problem? Ford may have decided that a MTTF rate of .02% < 100K and .05% >100K is acceptable for this part. Variables such as warranty cost to repair, customer satisfaction, dealer ability to handle the repairs of failed vehicles, etc are taken into account. I owned two GM vehicles that had head gasket failure and dumped the coolant into the engine with no warning. Yes, if you get hit, it is expensive. But short of not enjoying car ownership, not much I can do about it.

[FastWgn]

Is there a good rule of thumb on mileage to replace the water pump BEFORE it catastrophically fails and costs thousands? I'm at 70k and a little concerned about when it might fail with no warning. Want to be pro active on it, not reactive and replace whole motor...